Welcome to the voices of 8th hour. On this site, we will explore themes, create parodies, ask questions and share writings. Questions? Ask them. Answers? Propose them. Let your voice be heard!
4/25: The Great Gatsby, ch 1-2
4/28: The Great Gatsby, ch 3-4 *quiz?!
4/29: The Great Gatsby, ch 5-6
4/30: The Great Gatsby, ch 7
5/1: The Great Gatsby, ch 8-9
5/2: The Great Gatsby, Lively Discussion
5/5: Research Paper, Second Draft due to Ms. Marsh, by 730am. In-class, AP Prep
5/6: AP Prep with Mrs. Ross
5/7: computer lab
5/8: computer lab
5/9: Practice AP Prompt
5/12: RESEARCH PAPER DUE - title contest
5/13: letter about research process due final ap prep
5/14: AP TEST IN AM Hemingway, "A Clean, Well-Lighted Place" HW: Read "A Soldier's Home"
5/15: Hemingway: post on blog this evening
5/16: Intro The Things They Carried
5/19: Part I, The Things They Carried Due
5/21: Part II, The Things They Carried Due
Entries due by Friday, March 14.
150 copies of each cover sheet are on the bookshelf under the clock in the English Department. Take two copies of the cover sheet for the category you're entering.
Fiction--up to 3,000 words
Poetry--up to 50 lines
Essay--up to 3,000 words
Drama--5-15 minutes playing time
All entries must be typed, double-spaced on 8.5 x 11" paper.
25 comments:
I do not agree with this opinion. I think that Hawthorne gives his characters plenty of places in which they could have decided to turn back. Although Young Goodman Brown found that he couldn't turn back when he trie he still tried to refuse Satan's temptation. In the part where YGB is tired and needs to sit down, he says, "having kept covenant by meeting thee here, it is my purpose now to return whence I came"(Hawthorne 2). Event though YGB tries to resist Satan and leave he finds that he is already under his grasp. The reason why YGB cannot make himself turn away is because from the moment that he stepped into that forest he turned his back on Faith. He may have still had hope but he had already lost his will to walk away.
I agree with the criticism in the fact that the character of Young Good man Brown didn't ultimately have the choice to turn back. In a society which as Hawthorne made it seem, was infested with sin, hidden or otherwise, I believe he was overwhelmed by the fact that everyone was born into sin. That there was in fact an "omnipresent evil." This is further displayed in the fact that Faith, a two-faced symbol of hope throughout seems to already have communed with the devil even before Goodman Brown. If his own faith had been tainted before his own ordeal even occurred what chance did he stand? YGB had planned on "clinging to her skirts and following her to heaven." Yet with that option gone, he had no more will to save himself.
I believe Stoehr was half right. It does appear that Hawthorne throws a lot of blame on his characters, but I think that Young Goodman Brown had the possibilities of turning back multiple times. Brown says, "My mind is made up. Not another step will I budge on this errand" (Hawthorne 4). Brown thinks about turning back and I think he is capable of doing so, but he succumbs to the devil each time, and continues forward on his path.
I don't agree with this statement either. Young Goodman Brown had many opportunities to turn back and resist the devil as he was walking in the forest. Faith says "...put off your journey until sunrise and sleep in your own bed tonight...a lone woman is troubled with such dreams and such thoughts that she's afeard herself sometimes"(Hawthorne 1). Faith gives him a warning even before he completely makes up his mind to go into the forest. Each of the characters gathered in the forest had made their own decision to committ sins and join the devil. Once he has gone into the forest, it is harder to resist the devil and temptation. Unfortunately, since he has already left his Faith behind and saw the evil that everyone hid, he succumbed to the devil and made his choice not to be saved.
I do not agree with the statement. I think that Brown was given plethora of chances to back away. His curiosity kept him there. In the story, Hawthorne stated, "'friend,' said he, stubbornly, 'my mind is made up. Not another step will I budge on this errand.'" That is just one of many chances that Brown had to back away from his damnation. His curiosity to explore deeper into the devil's grasp.
Reena Patel said...
I do not agree with Taylor Stoehr's opinion. I think Goodman Brown could have turned back mulitples times. He displayed signs of unassurance and not wanting to continue the path. "This is a dull pace for the beginning of a journey", says the devil (Hawthorne 2). This shows Goodman Brown was walking at a slow pace wanting to turn back, but also being persuaded by the devil to continue. A few times, Goodman Brown stops walking. "I will stand firm against the devil" (Hawthorne 6). I think Goodman Brown was capable of saving himself, but after seeing the townspeople he trusted as followers of the devil, he lost his hope to turn away.
I believe that Taylor Stoehr's opinion is credible in regards to all the character except Young Goodman Brown. In regards to the townspeople and Faith, they seem to be "accused" by Hawthorne as converting to the devil and holding less virtuous souls without being able to save themselves or even explain their presence at the scene. Personally, I thought there was a lack of sufficient dialogue between the characters to justify the accusation as false, and merely YGB's personal criticisms towards others. "What God doth the wizard pray to?" (Hawthorne 9). Also, the fact that the reader was not told whether YGB was dreaming the events, or if they actually took place provided no opportunities to prove that the townspeople were in a relationship with the devil or not. With regards to YGB himself, the quotation is untrue. He is given several opportunities to resist the temptation of the devil, and falls prey to it nonetheless. First, Faith begs him not to go at all. "pray tarry with me this night...of all the nights in the year" (Hawthorne 1) Second, Brown constantly fights his mental self for control. "My mind is made up. Not another step will I budge on this errand" (Hawthorne 4). I will stand firm against the devil" (Hawthorne 4). "having kepy covenant...it is my purpose now to return whence I came" (Hawthorne 2). Many times Brown fights for control, but he ultimately follows the devil.
I agree with Stoehr that Hawthorne seems to throw the blame on his charecters while giving them time to think and then to act upon weather they want to stay or turn back. Like the time when in the wood Young Goodman Brown says, "I will stand firm against the devil" (Hawthorne 6) that is when Hawthorne gives YGB a chance to turn back however YGB did not. He saw the townspeople and stayed on the devils side.
I disagree with the first part of this observation, but agree with the second part. I do not think Hawthorne throws the blame on his characters, because he writes "Young Goodman Brown" as a social commentary on the inevitable evil everyone will encounter in life. Hawthorne places the blame on the Devil and the bewitching allure of all things wicked. Hawthorne shows the Devil's malicious intents when he takes the form of Brown's grandfather and when he reveals to Brown his other converts, such as Goody Cloyse and the churchmen.
I do agree, however, with the statement that Hawthorne does not give his characters any means of saving themselves. While Brown did make the decision to travel through the forest on a journey he knew to be evil, I believe his purpose was never to join the Devil's rankings. He even commends himself, halfway to the Sabbath ceremony, for his decision to return to Faith. However, the Devil draws him to the fire, and Brown has no choice but to convert, especially when he sees his Faith at the altar.
This statement tears my mind in two for I agree that Hawthorne seems to throw blame on his characters but they seem to have the opportunity to save themselves, Young Goodman Brown's nieve mind and lack of experiance due to his youth prevents him from escaping the situation. Although I think that he had the choice to turn back I am unsure to say that he had the power after watching him fall into the devils grasp again and again.
YGB's single reason for turning back was to return to his dear Faith. Realizing when he sees her that she may not be the sweet, innocent, and pure wife that he married changes his thoughts and although he has the opportunity to turn back he continues into the forest for he has nothing left to lose.
In my opinion, Hawthorne gives his character several places where he could have turned back. For a while I actually thought he was going to turn back when he saw Goody Cloyse, the woman that taught him his catechism. I thought this could have been a time because he wasn't too far into the 'forest' and he clearly knew it was the devil so he could have turn away from the evil things. Here he could have called it quits because by now he knew that things were weird and bad. Also, when the devil made Brown come to the realization that his family was full of bad and evil people. This would be a point to turn around just to run away from these things.
I would concur with the general statement made by Stoehr, that Hawthorne is too harsh on his characters, but also believe that Young Goodman Brown had one chance to turn back, and one chance only- when Faith asked him to stay with her. As soon as he left faith, society around Young Goodman Brown corrupted him, and he didn't have a solid chance to go back. However, Hawthorne was overly harsh on his characters, as Young Goodman Brown had little idea where his walk through the forest would lead, and tried to resist the devil when he could recognize the sin he was commiting. However, because of the overall lack of recognition that Young Goodman Brown displayed throughout the story, Hawthorne should have been more lenient in the case of Young Goodman Brown.
Although the people who agree with this statement raise a good point, I am in disagreement in that Hawthorne does not place blame on his characters, but on the things that are out of people's controls. Although an unpleasant thought, Hawthorne explicitly states this idea when the devil says, "Evil is the nature of mankind" (Hawthorne 9). By mentioning that evil is an innate trait in human beings, Hawthorne is emphasizing how it is not our own faults that we are worshiping the devil, but the inevitable.
However, I am in agreement with the second half of Stoehr's statement. Although some may argue that the characters had opportunities to turn from the devil, they ultimately do not, "'My Faith is gone!' cried he, after one stupefied moment. 'There is no good on earth; and sin is but a name. Come, devil; for to thee is this world given'" (Hawthorne 6). During the time of this quote, Young Goodman Brown was adamant that he would not fall into temptation because of Faith. However, when he sees Faith's pink ribbon floating in midair, he immediately falls into temptation, believing that Faith is gone. Moreover, the strategic location of the devil's staff, right next to him, makes it much easier for Young Goodman Brown to become a convert. Since there is no time to analyze the consequences, Brown is acting on impulse, which Hawthorne establishes as an inborn evilness.
I disagree with this statement for a few reasons. Although it is hard for Hawthorne's characters to escape temptation from the devil, it is not impossible. I believe that Hawthorne makes this visible when Goodman Brown goes to the forest to meet with the devil, he is hesitant from the beginning. The devil persuades him a little bit but later, Goodman Brown sat on a stump of a tree and refused to follow the devil any further. It is said, "'Friend,' said he, stubbornly, 'my mind is made up. Not another step will i budge on this errand" (Hawthorne 4). It is not until Brown heard voices from Deacon Gookin and the minister, did he get up again. This is one example of Goodman Brown refusing the devil.
Also, at the end of the story, when Goodman Brown is standing next to Faith, and they are about to be baptized by the devil, Brown yells, "Faith! Faith! Look up to heaven, and resist the wicked one!" (Hawthorne 9). Then after this, the scene with the devil and townspeople is over and he finds himself alone. Therefore, this was another way of "escaping" the devil. Overall, I think that Hawthorne tries to show the corruption in the town, where the characters could refuse the devil, but do not.
I agree with the first part of Stoehr's criticism. However, I disagree with the second part of his statement. Stoehr says that Hawthorne blamed his characters for their evil decisions, but actually, it was the Devil who was making Brown and his fellow church members to be corrupt. The Devil says to Brown, "Come, Goodman Brown, ... this is a dull pace for the beginning of a journey. Take my staff, if you are so soon weary," (Hawthorne 2). Goodman Brown, in turn replies, "Friend, having kept covenant by meeting thee here, it is my purpose now to return whence I came," (Hawthorne 2). He knows that he's not supposed to be doing what he does.
Also, I believe Hawthorne provides a lot of chances for the characters to escape, but the characters just choose not to go towards that path. When Faith asks YGB to sleep at home that night, YGB replies, "... of all nights in the year, this one night must I tarry away from thee," (Hawthorne 1). YGB knows that he shouldn't yet he presses on while he could have listened to Faith. All the times YGB refuses to grasp the Devil's staff are also among the opportunities he had to escape from worshipping the Devil.
I would agree with Stoehr. Hawthorne did not only shake the faith of YGB, he also makes him react in such a way that he cannot even think about saving himself. When he finally realizes that his Faith/faith is gone, he can no longer remain "clinging to her skirts and following her to heaven." He then goes on to see other members of his community at the witches' sabbath and can no longer live his life as it were before this experience.
As for whether Hawthorne throws blame onto Brown, I would argue that he doesn't. Even with the knowledge that much more pious and religious people than him were taken in by the devil, he resists him and doesn't give in. The sense in the beginning of the story is that Brown had little choice but to go with the devil, or at least he was convinced so. The idea that he lacked “Faith” because of his wife’s presence at the devil’s ceremony seems to show the faith that the character represents hope and faith in others more that faith in goodness or God. His faith is shown by the fact that to the very end, he didn’t accept evil and tried to escape evil- even when his faith and hope in other human beings was practically destroyed by Faith’s presence there. At the end of the story, Brown still has faith in his own separation from evil but has little or no faith in the goodness of others because he doesn’t know who’s serving the devil. "The good old minister was taking a walk along the graveyard to get an appetite for breakfast and meditate his sermon, and bestowed a blessing, as he passed, on Goodman Brown. He shrank from the venerable saint as if to avoid an anathema" (Hawthorne, 9). He never openly questions his own goodness, but shifts the balme to the others.
I do not agree with the opinion that YGB blames everyone without them being able tot defend themselves. I think that the reason that he even does blame everyone is because faith abandons him in the end. Numerous times he calls out to Faith to stay with him and not go with the devil to stay with heaven, but in the end she ends up leaving him. By Faith leaving him he losses all hope and thus losses "faith" in all the goodness in the world.
I disagree with this statement. In Young Goodman Brown, there are many different instances when Brown could have made the choice to turn back from the forest, and not make a pact with the devil. At several points in the story, he is given the opportunity to resist evil. For example, on page 4 Hawthorne writes, "'Friend,' said he, stubbornly, 'my mind is made up. Not another step will i budge on this errand." Ultimately, it is Browns choice to continue down the path into the forest, which affects him for the rest of his life.
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